Cherry Pie ~ sweet N’ sour
Napa Crit World Championships …
There are enough reasons to love CherryPie that gorging on its sweetness this Sunday can only be considered a heaping helping of healthfood for the soul. But, like anything as sinfully tasty as CherryPie - there are some bitter pits hidden inside that can turn the stomach if not careful.
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The SOUR of CherryPie is the decision to race the 15-16, 17-18 men AND women fields together. This is a monumentally bad decision that leads to 18 year-old raging bulls trying to find ways to squeeze-through and pass slower groups of younger, less experienced riders. The speed and ability differentials between these fields are so pronounced, so significant that racing them on the course at the same time creates very, very real situations of danger for all involved ~ not to mention burning the fun-meter to a crispy, yucky bottom.
Over and over again, for those who pay attention, we see how combining young men and women in crits leaves a bad taste in the mouths of all involved.
And there’s no need for anybody to email me about limitations of time/fields/resources. I’ve heard it all before, promote more events than most, understand your point of view … and, disagree. It’s UN-cool to mix junior genders in criteriums.
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Advice For YoungStars Racing at CherryPie ~
Hey cats ~ spread the word to your teammates and friends if you think these are cool things to keep in mind for the racing:
If there is one thing I’d ask, it’s to not risk ANY one’s safety out there at CherryPie. There will be moments when a fast group of riders will have to pass a slower group. You must be ready for this and YOU must be the ones who act responsibly. I can tell you right now, in the heat of battle, it’s VERY easy to forget to act responsibly and instead do things that risk the safety of riders … but remember, just because YOU think it’s safe to pass, doesn’t mean it’s going to be safe for those you’re passing.
And what’s more, it’s just NO FUN.
The best thing you can do when coming up on another field (younger guys or girls) is to:
- Communicate with your competitors, respectfully, as you approach the slower group. It’s best to use short, precise phrases so that all the racers understand. I usually use, “riders up” to get my pack’s attention, because we use that phrase in training on the roads … and it’s pretty universal.
. - Clearly announce to the group you’re overtaking that you’re coming from behind, but do it nicely. Never use bad language, even if other riders do. I usually use, “passing on the right/left”. I often repeat it once when farther away, once just before overtaking, and once as we overtake … that way all the riders in the group we’re passing get to hear it and prepare themselves. And, I usually try and thank them, as well.
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You never know if a cute woman bike racer might not appreciate it!
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Never pass in a corner, if at all possible. Sometimes, however, the group you’re with will do so and you won’t have any choice because you’re in the middle of the pack. If you are in the middle of your pack, and it overtakes another slower group in a corner, just do your best to leave room for them and make NO sudden movements in your own group. You have to remember that your competitors in your pack may not be able to respond to any movements out of “the line” that the pack is going through.
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In almost all instances, it’s best to just follow the line of riders as they go through corners.
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Back to the Sweetness of CherryPie ~
The Napa crit course has all the ingredients that an all-arounder must be able to stomach to call themselves a true criterium racer. The technical turns, a few bot-dot beebop areas to negotiate, long exposed power drags of wicked suffering, and one helluva hard sprinter’s hill to cook yourself up and over, again and again.
If you are able to forge a breakaway at CherryPie … you’ve really baked your cake and eaten it, too. Riding breaks at CP calls for inhuman amounts of both endurance AND speed. The challenge lies in that damn finishing hill ~ many riders in the pack get a nice, fat draft for a lap, or two … find themselves on the fresher side of things and hit that hill at vomit-inducing efforts. The crowds cheering, the photographers snapping … it really does instill some superhuman efforts up that stupid finishing hill.
Breakaways, on the other hand, have to suffer lap after lap, with little chance of rest and recovery, often times seen digging trenches through their souls just to maintain speed up and through the aweful hairpin that tops out CherryPie.
It can be an utterly grueling horrorfest out front on the Napa crit course.
The riders who have the guts, the smarts, and the toughness in their legs to be able to stick it at CherryPie have done something beautiful, indeed.
~ and i hope i get to see some of that this weekend!
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Another bit of sweetness from Napa is the chance to witness one of these sprints happen again.
Best Sprint Picture … Ever.
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February 5th, 2009 at
Going to experience my first Cherry Pie this weekend!
but what I want to know is where are the pies?
February 5th, 2009 at
Yeah, I love that photo of the 2005 finish. Dean LaBerge didn’t raise his arms for a few races after that, even when winning by a large margin.
Is Lyne asking for photos of the pies? I have one here:
http://www.pbase.com/garrettlau/image/39480654
February 5th, 2009 at
I wanted to let you all know Armstrong was granted a spot in this race, and he will take part with 4 other Astana team mates. This is going to be good for everyone.
See you there.
February 5th, 2009 at
pie - yummy!
February 5th, 2009 at
Garmin will not be there. They finished up a monster training camp (three weeks) and are cooked. They will show up a next Wednesday.
February 5th, 2009 at
I agree with you on the costs and benefits of combining different age groups and genders, particularly the mix you mentioned. It’s very dorky, but the promoters should consider basic cost benefit analysis: whether the probability of loss (injury) multiplied by the severity of loss (injury) is greater than the burden of adequate precautions (i.e., splitting up the fields). Law dorks with recognize the foregoing as Learned Hand’s B<PL approach to negligence. It’s not that hard to quantify B,P and L in this situation — B is the additional time and money required to separate the fields; P is the probability of injury based on prior races involving the same mix of fields; and L is the cost (monetary is probably easiest) of injuries and lost equipment that can be forecast based on experience with similar fields. It should be noted that measureing L with money does not capture all the racers who miss out because they have to slow down after a crash, racers who have road rash but no monetary loss, etc.
February 5th, 2009 at
I trust the Garmin report from Williams, the Astana report, well …
February 5th, 2009 at
I wanted to see the Garmins darnnit…does that mean the P,1,2 guys on the wait list get those 6 or so spots or do they have to wait until race day to know whether or not they’re racing.
February 5th, 2009 at
yeah but what about pie?
I like pie
February 5th, 2009 at
I also have word that Garmin is not doing Cherry Pie. Mine comes from a Cal Giant rider who has spoken to some of them. A couple of the “local” Garmin riders might still do the race, however (e.g., Lucas Euser).
As for the junior issue, well, how is Cherry Pie different than most crits that offer a single “junior” field? At Land Park we have one junior field, prizes 8 places deep, not picked by category or gender or anything. I’m looking at a lot of the crits on our calendar, and I’m not seeing many with more than one junior field. Cherry Pie is managing two junior fields. I agree that having a 15 year old girl on the course at the same time as an 18 year old Cat. 2 isn’t the best idea, but still… I suppose that offering separate prizes encourages 15 year old juniors to enter when they might not bother to enter an open juniors field, but I think you are being a bit unfair by calling them out in this fashion.
I give them props for having two junior fields. It’s hard to manage at an early season race, when there is just “so” much daylight to work with.
February 5th, 2009 at
unfair?
oh waaaah. I give CP props for many things they do - and ‘call them out’ as example of what is wrong with how we do MANY jr crits.
I’m of the opinion that we do not need to offer all categories at all races. But if you do offer them, make them safe, and make them fun for those attending (especially kids).
We promoters can very easily decide to drop an elite category, or two if we want to tailor a race to junior riders. Or, we can choose not to have junior events at all. Or, we can choose to make the junior events safe by categorizing/making them safely age-specific.
The bottom line is safety. Pure and simple.
February 5th, 2009 at
Thanks for updating us on the Astana news….I was wondering if that was valid.
February 5th, 2009 at
backwards info i think about ASTANA
they will be doing the TOC not the World Championship Cherry picking Crit event
February 5th, 2009 at
Bottom line, if we are going to have any preference in the races it shoud be biased to the ones that helps the sport survive financially and that is the Masters. We are the ones that are probably paying in all the money for the juniors, anyhow. Plus most juniors can race in their respective elite category and do just fine, or even win. So it’s not about safety, it’s about what everything else is, money. So unless they start fielding 100+ participants, tough luck kids.
February 5th, 2009 at
well done, aMErican.
As a masters racer, a promoter, and a lover of our sport - i whole heartedly disagree with everything you’ve just written.
but thanks for sharing your point of view.
m
February 5th, 2009 at
I have to fully agree with Mike Hernandez
sure the most racers are Masters
but what will the future hold in 20 years
juniors who are 8-10 years old will be at their physical peak
masters who are 40- 45 will be riding still, but at 60 to 65 things change
If we do not start now to make the races popular and available to young guns
then we are missing the point for putting on races in the first place
Races are to develop skills, talent, and accpetance to competiton in a proper enviroment.
every now and then some 15 year old becomes a Senior World Champion maybe 10 to 15 years later.
Masters racers should be doing the mentoring of juniors, it should be required.
the only tuff luck is the tuff luck thrown down on some junior because his age group is not racing that day
let the kids race and let the Masters pack fill relax just a little
February 5th, 2009 at
Hernando is Spot On regarding Juniors races. I’m a masters Cat 4 weekend warrior…doing it entirely for fitness, the camaraderie of my teammates, and a means of maintaining my sanity through the work week at the Uni. Ya, the competitive juices get pumping when I race, and that is very exciting….but, the Juniors are the future of our sport and our next generation of movers and shakers. Let’s support them fully! I’d be more than happy to step aside and miss a race to get the Juniors more appropriate fields to race in our local events. Besides, if I’m not on the puter when reg goes live, I miss it anyway….fills so fast! no worries, I go do something else or just go and cheer on the Team. Pretty simple, I know…
February 6th, 2009 at
I think the juniors should get their own race time out on the course without mixing groups.
You can not control the little buggers when they are on fire, and having different fields passing eachother and racing eachother is not good, even for masters racing.
Let us all give praise and thanks to the great one Mikchael Hernandez for his terrific work in getting things in order for all of cycling in general.
February 6th, 2009 at
Mike,
You have to chose your wars here. I do believe that promoters should offer more categories and safety is first. You have pushed hard for more womens categories that are poorly attended. The juniors categories are not money makers either. How do you expect an honest promoter to come out ahead (with some energy and enthusiasm left over)if he/she is spreading themself too thin… I understand your view, but you reach a ton of people - I think your message can be lost on some and result in negative exposure…. Talk about what is offered vs. what is not….
I do respect your view, but delivery can be a little harsh, since your sword is soooo big!
February 6th, 2009 at
oh waaaaah…
i’m not saying offering more categories … I’m saying be safe in the categories that are offered.
and i believe there is plenty of hype offered for CP in this post.
if you can’t see the zebra because of the stripes, you get nothing more than another ‘waaaaaah.’
February 6th, 2009 at
nice…. another appendege apparently has caught up to the sword….
…should stop wasting my time on the web anyway, and i appreciate (honestly) the reminder. Less time on web = more time on bike
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February 6th, 2009 at
See I’m right. Look at the race flyers, mostly masters races. We are the bread and butter of the sport, the cash cows. Before you flame me, how many of you masters will willingly give up their race each week for some boring mixed field race of some flailing juniors. Not me. The best can handle the elite races, the others either have to get better or just be enthuiasts.
February 6th, 2009 at
if, as you say, “the best can handle the elite races” … i think you should extend that to masters racers.
upgrade and race in the elite events. 35+ cat 3, 35+ cat 4 races? i think we’re getting silly with all these split fields - but a promoter can do what they want.
but, using your “logic” - if you can’t handle a 35+ 1/2/3 field and don’t want to race a straight up cat4 or cat 3 field - then, as you say, “get better or just be enthusiasts”.
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“cash cows” … what a ridiculous term. i’m a huge supporter of masters aged riders racing in our sport. And that has nothing to do with field choice regarding safety. And yes, if there was no 35+1/2/3 field in an event … i would just race the p1/2 and not complain one bit.
The point of my post is argue that we need to make categories promoter’s offer safe. promoter’s don’t have to offer junior categories, they don’t have to offer masters categories, or women’s categories. But, they also can’t complain when we racers voice our desires for what they’d like them to offer.
and they don’t have to listen. But, they do have to make their races safe. That’s an obligation that has nothing to do with ‘cash’ or ‘cows’.
February 6th, 2009 at
Okay, but are you willing to give up every 35+ 123 this year and race the P-1/2 instead so the tykes can come and play? Or should there be no master 4 racing (or the boring women 4’s?) Whatever the case, you would alienate the racers that have the money to keep the sport and the promoters going, the masters. For safety sake, if the officials and the promoters would apply the rule book to offending riders and hold people accountable for their actions, people might think before they do something stupid. Our officials have a habit of enforcing petty rules but don’t have the balls to penalize or suspend gross breaches of the rules. So the pack will always be unsafe.
February 6th, 2009 at
perfect display of the problem - myopic, self-centered, self-serving, and amazingly illogical.
kudos … and there’s more rope for you to use to hang yourself. anytime.
February 6th, 2009 at
Easy for you to say as your top post promotes a master racer that is self centered and about his own racing and pocket book. Am I against him? No. It’s survival of the fittest and KW is a master that knows how to play the game and get it done. And you are promoting him. Masters taking care of masters, the way it should be. Let’s share the rope as we are both in it for ourselves. The difference is that you hide behing a smiley facade. I don’t blame you, it’s easier to fool people that way. What is it, honey over vinager? You are honey and I’m vinager. But w/ the same motives.
February 6th, 2009 at
‘Masters taking care of masters?’ Are you daft? Did you work for the Bush administration? Your ability to put blinders on and argue illogically is downright Rovian. Hit them up in Midland for a job!
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“both in it for ourselves” … oh man, you’re priceless! keep ‘em coming, bud. wonderful!
February 6th, 2009 at
Oh sorry Hernando Obama. Just like any good politician, you are great at spin and knows how to make yourself look good and the other bad. But your motives are clear. You claim to be for “the people”, but outside your blog diatribes what have you done? You have promoted and taken advantage of cycling as a master as I. You are not bad for looking out for yourself. You just are better at the sweet talk wich seperates you from negative press. In the end all politicians are in it for one thing, winning and ego. Racers, winning and ego.
February 6th, 2009 at
Anonymous
Mike will track you down and make you pedal so many circles your legs will get so dizzy they will be equally dizzy to your anonymous postings and rantings.
I want to see you guys and Armstrong the ultimate Masters racer who will work you both over….in a cage fight UFC style, winner take all.
Im thinking the Master of Disaster, The King of Sting, The Man, The Myth, The Legend…..Hernandez will come out of the cage smiling and ready to take on the next challengers.
February 6th, 2009 at
He already races hard, as I. But why are you talking cage match? Do you mean fist in face style? If so, you are now taking the cake in ludicrous rants. I speak the truth vinager style, Hernando honey BS politician style, and you bubba beer drinking red neck style. And BTW, Lance isn’t a master if he is racing the Pro Tour, it makes him a pro. (What ever happened to the days when a Master was over 40?)
February 6th, 2009 at
whatever happened to the days when masters raced golf carts?
Leave the racing to the fast guys, the hotties and the kids. Go find yourself some plaid pants and a calloway driver….
Old guy testosterone gel is oozing out of all these posts. Sounds like some dosages need to be regulated.
February 6th, 2009 at
attention Hernando:
all of these posts.
hAndy sounds like the golf expert. And a doping expert.
February 6th, 2009 at
two more years, I will deff be the golfing expert. Because I don’t have the need to relive the glory days, or missed glory days. And you all are way too uptight and agro to spend my weekends with….
Looking forward to the years of teste gel and HGH pills, then maybe I will be able to crack 5 foot 6 and be able to get rid of these love handles. But have another ten years or so before I can go Canseco on the world….
February 6th, 2009 at
Canseco on the world? You mean getting beat up by Danny Bonaducci?
February 6th, 2009 at
“masters taking care of masters”
ah..
ah…
ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
…Whew. I love this blog.
February 7th, 2009 at
Mikey, lets be completely honest here.
You love Cherry Pie, no doubt, and should be commended for having given adequate due to the race and the spectacle of racing in it. But the problem here really is that you HATE the guy who is putting it on. You would’ve found anything to complain about within this race to make it look like some injustice had been done, just so you could in some way discredit this person. Your motives for picking on the flaws you perceive in the scheduled categories have nothing to with you caring about what actually is going to happen, you did the same thing last year when you were crying after the fact about the way the women’s categories and the way they were arranged. Constant criticism of others after the schedule is in place just makes you look whiney and ego-driven, just like the people you chastise above. You could have easily contacted the promoter in advance with helpful suggestions for this year, since you so had such a huge problem with last year’s schedule, but you didn’t, either because of your ego, time constraints or inability to put past battles aside for the sake of the junior’s saftey. You could also put forth on this site what you believe is the best outline for running a criterium that includes everybody fairly, instead of just complaining after the fact like you always do. Put your ego and own self-serving rants aside, it’s the beginning of the season, make a difference now. Don’t just complain about everybody else for the rest of the year. If you really care.
February 7th, 2009 at
You forgot the continued little stabs at Leberge as well…..
Those that have interacted with him know both sides of Hernandez. We all have two sides, but it is how he pokes at others dark side when they are naked and exposed while sitting in his gleaming armer. His approach is effective, but those who are aware know the drive that is there. Oh well, I guess we really do not have to read it….
February 7th, 2009 at
mike fools you as he sucks your soul dry when he is smiling. god help us as the devil is the biggest deceiver.
February 7th, 2009 at
yeeeesss … sucking souls dry, devilish deceivings, poking at the naked and exposed.
mwuhahahaaaa!
… and who is the promoter of CherryPie? (please, oh please say it’s Jess Raphael … i thought he was just an occasional announcer - but, if he’s the man to ‘hate’ … well, all the more fun!) Sooo sorry for not singling any particular person out with my ‘complaints of injustice’. forward me the name and i’ll begin drying out their soul immediately!
and Laura, does your comment mean that you disagree with the premise of my post - that mixing genders of juniors is a bad idea? i realize there’s no way that i believe that to be the case … me and my ego and all … but, what about you? you’re cool with mixing of ages and genders? rag on me all you like, but do consider the point of the post and think about how you’d feel if your 15 year old daughter was crashed into the hospital because of an avoidable high speed accident.
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classic.
February 7th, 2009 at
This is such crap! My guess is that this whole “Lance”/”Garmin” thing is a total rouse and that all of the registrations are bogus in an attempt to fill their (Eagle Racing/Promotor’s) fields.
As a race promotor, I have experience of just how easy and free it is for a promoter to add anybody they want to their on-line registration start lists. I can just see “the promotor” adding the Garmin team and then extending (begging) the invitation.
So, all these racers will register and fill the fields and not even the spectators are going to get what they came for. Great way to send all the sleep-deprived juniors home crying.
February 7th, 2009 at
whaaat? everybody’s in town for tour of cali … i find it quite realistic that some fabu-pros may be thinking about coming. i hope they do.
well, except lance. that old man should be racing masters.
February 7th, 2009 at
hey now
its his blog
he can say what he wants
or he will delete you out of the entire scene
so you can not write things
creative or not
and he can write what he wants
creative or not
February 7th, 2009 at
“i find it quite realistic that some fabu-pros may be thinking about coming”
That’s why the rouse worked!
February 8th, 2009 at
I don’t have a problem with your argument. I agree with you about safety. I was pointing out that by offering two different fields for juniors, Cherry Pie is doing better than most other races, and I think its unfair to pick on that race. And while you are at it, let’s talk about road races that put 15 fields on the course at the same time. We don’t think we can put more than 3 fields safely on the Bariani course at the same time. Snelling will have 7 fields on a course about 1.7 miles per lap. That’s a field every 1.7 miles. the Pro/1/2 field is going to go off maybe 25 minutes before the final field goes off. If the Pro/1/2 field averages 25 mph, they are going to come through the start/finish line about 4 minutes after the final field starts.
I’m just saying there are lots of safety issues to pick on.
February 8th, 2009 at
Mike is always right. that is part of his deceptive back stabbing charm.